Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1290820171

From: "Julie Frame Falk" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] SNP Breakthrough for I1*-AS
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 12:09:31 +1100
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Aaron Salles Torres said:

<<My FT DNA kit number is 148532 and my ysearch ID is 7PGXX. I also ordered the L338 test for my maternal grandfather's line (Fernandes, FT DNA kit number: 172172). Besides the deeper understanding of I1 followed by this discovery, I am curious as to how the Frame and Hamilton clusters will test for L338.>>

I am curious as well. I have ordered L338 for a man in Frame A who is 1-off the modal, but YSearch 7PGXX presents a great puzzle for Frame and I am trying to determine whether two 'outliers' (4G8B9, GT2D7) who match the Frame A modal 67-8 should also test for L338? All of Frame A carry the RecLOH mutation YCAIIa,b = 21,21. Torres 7PGXX also carries this same mutation and matches the Frame A 67-marker modal (WAGC7) 67-12.

Here's where I am more than a little confused: Torres 7PGXX matches Frame B (FPW8A) 67-15. Frame B has 3 Frame men descended from the one couple and they are identical to the Hamilton B modal. If a Hamilton B rep. orders L338 there will be no need for Frame B to do the same. Frame B men do *NOT* carry the RecLOH mutation.

However, some in the Frame A group match Torres 7PGXX *more distantly* than Frame B does, with the GD stretching out as far as 67-18 for the Frame A outlier GT2D7. Please bear in mind that some in Frame A (including X7P3B and others in Frame A Sub-Group 3 (1-off modal) and the outlier GT2D7 (Sub-Group 2, 8 off modal) as well as the Frame B men all have their ancestral roots in Dalserf/Hamilton in Lanarkshire alongside the Hamiltons; perhaps stemming from an early clan migration to that part of Lanarkshire. Some early Frame Will transcripts (early 1600s) are showing that the proceeds of Frame estates seem to be substantial for the timeframe, even though they do not seem to have personally held land in their own names in Dalserf. They were tenants on Hamilton land. So far, the transcripts are showing obvious kinship between the various Frames on different farms there; likewise, their interconnection with the Hamiltons. Research indicates that Frame A and Frame B stem from the same *kinship group* despite the difference in the Frame B direct male line DNA.

I thought I had the Frame A sub-groups divided reasonably well (see RESULTS ) and had been assuming that the two Frame A outlier branches probably split from the main stem early post-Conquest since they still shared the RecLOH and had the stabilized form of the surname, but the situation with Torres 7PGXX and how he matches the various members of Frame A (closely and distantly), and also Frame B (in between!) confuses me. I had been wondering if there might have been a separate identical RecLOH at YCAIIa,b for him, but the closeness of the match to the Frame A modal (67-12) seems to suggest a single mutation. The only notion I have, plausible or not, is that the Crusades (one known Fresne/Fresme attendee from England) might have had an impact on the Torres DNA.

I would appreciate knowing how other admins. would deal with this situation. Should I be sub-grouping Frame A differently? Should I see if the two outliers, particularly GT2D7, test for L338? Opinions welcome!

Julie Frame Falk

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