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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1291126795


From: Mike W <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b and R1a fate
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:19:55 -0600
References: <716460.24873.qm@web25902.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <716460.24873.qm@web25902.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Dear Didier or Bernard,

I see your scenario describes two different waves of R1b folks into
Europe, one into the Balkans and a second somehow to Portugal and this
second wave then established the Beaker Culture.

The two large subclades of R1b in Western Europe, according to the
Myres study ("A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era...")
are R-U106 and R-P312. Together, with their R-L11* "brothers", they
make up over 95% of the R1b there.

How do the expansions of R-P312 and R-U106 fit into your scenario?

You didn't list a wave of R1b from the Pontic Steppes that went north
first and then west around the Carpathian Mountains. Do you think R1b
did not travel that route? The reason I ask is that Myres' coalescence
times indicate an older age for R-U106 in Poland and the Baltic
states. Do you propose that R-U106 went south around the Carpathians
and then north into Poland versus directly north and west?

Please note that I recognize many of these migrations were probably
not purely of a single haplogroup, so I'm asking these questions from
a majority or prevailing frequency perspective.

Regards, Mike W

---------- Vernade Didier wrote:
.... The key starting point is the Yamnaya culture, often cited as
typically IE. The first map is showing the arrival of R1b in the
Balkans : http://secher.bernard.free.fr/YamnayaMigrations.jpg ... A
separate wave of R1b is supposed to have reached Portugal by a
different way ; this group is responsible for the onset of the Beaker
culture and a logical consequence is that Beaker folks are believed to
have spoken an IE language. Here is a map of the diffusion of the
Beaker culture following O. Lemercier :
http://secher.bernard.free.fr/DNA/Diffusion_campaniforme.jpg .

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