Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2012-02 > 1330462477

From: "Bob May" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Humans Out of Africa - or not?!
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:54:37 +1000
References: <><>
In-Reply-To: <>

Sounds great but where are the facts to support it!

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-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Humans Out of Africa - or not?!

>From: Ted Kandell < > Yes. Humans originated in
>Africa. Duh! The question is, WHEN did they leave.

Dear Ted,

Unfortunately, those categorical statementsare misleading, if not to say openly false.

May I remain you (and others) that "Out of Africa" concept is a HYPOTHESIS, not a proven fact. It is a complex problem, and with our progress in collecting and analyzing data it becomes more and more complex. To trivialize it as it is done in the quotation above provided a disservice to science and to lay people who want to know the state of the problem, not just slogans.

First, you should give a definition of "humans" and "originated". Then you should realize that the SNPs make the tree, without knowing where the tree is rooted. To say that it is rooted in Africa is bluffing. SNPs do not and cannot show it.

When you move to the question WHEN they leave (without knowing if they leave from Africa and not that they came to Africa, which is equally possible), you should ask yourself - can it be 60,000 ybp? 70,000 ybp? - as the "Out of Africa" concept tells us. I have news for you: it simply could not be. I suspect that all of you who operate with slogans, have never looked at haplotypes of the Africans and non-Africans. The distance between them is astronomical. As I have told here before, the distance between haplogroups A and B is at least 120,000 years. Nobody here was able to comment on this result, except vague "it cannot be calculated". Yes, it can be, and it is described in the paper in Advances in Anthropology (quoted here not once) in the section on the slowest markers. When you have a difference in 25-28 mutations between two base 22-slowest marker haplotypes, you do not need to handle calculations, you should realize right away that it is a huge time difference. It is in!
compatible with non-Africans deriving fromAfricans in any reasonable time span, and certainly not in the last60-70,000 years, and not in 100,000 years, and not in 120,000 years.

Unfortunately, all I hear here are slogans from people who are not qualified to make statements as quoted above. Making slogans is not science. Science is always considering various explanations, and analyze which of them fit better in all various data, evidences, observations, interpretations.

On a personal note, I am not inclined to contribute to a study which is biased from the beginning.


Anatole Klyosov

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