GENIRE-L Archives

Archiver > GENIRE > 2003-03 > 1046569338


From: jodyb <>
Subject: Re: Schermerhorn to Chieftain message
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:42:18 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <200303011956.h21Jux2M018241@lists2.rootsweb.com>


Hey, let's keep it pleasant here. This kind of nastiness degrades our purpose and is an embarrassment.
Jody B
_____________________________________________
Some person unwilling to use a real name at writes:

<< Did they have photographs in the early 1800s? No. >>

Dead wrong. Daguerre was making photos at least by the 1830's. The children
you were referring to were born in the 60's and 70's. Even Matthew Brady had
taken hundreds of phots by then. Stick to matters you know something about.

Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts


























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































In the NATURALISATION column of the 1930 U S census some have entered PA and
others AL.

What does PA stand for and is AL for alien?

Colm

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 10 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 13:52:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: (Dennis Ahern)
To:
Subject: Re: Genealogy - what and where is it?

Don Moody () wrote:
: In message <005401c2df88$fc53eca0$>, Jane Lyons
: writes
: >In the past, when people criticised any person who posted lists of names or
: >newspaper articles to any genealogy list, I used to 'react' so to
: >speak..........in anger with the critic, and defence of the poster - it
: >didn't have to be me.



: No search engine means no use. Search engines which direct to a 'page'
: with thousands of names, but which do NOT highlight the name searched
: for wherever it occurs on the page, are not useful. To use jargon, you
: have to understand for any field of information searching what are its
: 'indexable concepts' and how the searchers operate in 'fast scan' mode.

Perhaps you are not aware that everything we say here is archived in a
searchable database on http://www.google.com and the terms you put in for
a query, be they names, places, or other terms, are highlighted in the
displayed results. You can also qualify the search to look for postings
by a specific user. In addition, the soc.genealogy.ireland postings are
mirrored to the GENIRE-L list, which is also archived online.

See: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GENIRE
Searchable Archive of GENIRE-L Messages

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=soc.genealogy.ireland
Google's Archive of soc.genealogy.ireland

These, and other useful links, can be reached from the TIARA web site.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Dennis Ahern | The Irish Ancestral Research Association
Acton, Massachusetts | Dept. W, P.O. Box 619, Sudbury, MA 01776
| http://www.tiara.ie
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 11 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:41:59 +0000
From: Don Moody
To:
Subject: Re: Genealogy - what and where is it?

In message <005401c2df88$fc53eca0$>, Jane Lyons
writes
>In the past, when people criticised any person who posted lists of names or
>newspaper articles to any genealogy list, I used to 'react' so to
>speak..........in anger with the critic, and defence of the poster - it
>didn't have to be me.

You miss the entire point. You can publish lists of any length you want
under any uninformative title you like, and it won't be useful genealogy
or any sort of aid thereto. What you are doing is merely repeating
information which already exists. Somewhere. You are therefore not
adding in any way to the sum total of human knowledge. But you are
consuming resources for this zero net benefit.

The only way of making a non-zero net benefit is to make the information
available in a form which is much easier to search than the same
information was originally. That requires sorting out who asks what
questions of the database, and remodelling the database so that those
questions can be answered. In genealogy, and whether you like it or not,
the prime questions will always be about names. Therefore any compendium
in any form which is not fast-searchable by name, whether on title or
body text, is effectively useless in the wider genealogical community.

'Extracts of Bogston Recorder, issues 1 to infinity' is and always will
be useless to people doing genealogy. In the first place it requires
them to re-read the whole extract to find out if any of their names of
interest are recorded, and they don't have the time. In the second place
if no criteria are stated for the extracting then failure to find a name
in the extract proves nothing, and sets the searcher the task of reading
every issue of the Bogston Recorder cover to cover, for which there is
even less time and which makes the extracting effort pointless.

No search engine means no use. Search engines which direct to a 'page'
with thousands of names, but which do NOT highlight the name searched
for wherever it occurs on the page, are not useful. To use jargon, you
have to understand for any field of information searching what are its
'indexable concepts' and how the searchers operate in 'fast scan' mode.

The game is all about dumping at least cost and as fast as possible the
vast mountain of 'irrelevant' dross. And doing it under the constraint
that some of what is classified as dross by A may very well be
classified as useful by B. In other words you cannot make
value-judgements when pre-structuring the database.

In genealogy we have the specific problem that the usual search term, a
name, does not necessarily have invariant spelling through space and
time. Search engines still need human support to find some of the less
routine transformations of names, and it is a good thing if they can be
made capable of 'learning' from the humans.

So either publish in an efficiently searchable way, or don't waste
effort on publishing at all. THAT is the point, and the decision.

Don
--
Dr D P Moody, Ashwood, Exeter Cross, Liverton, Newton Abbot, Devon,
England TQ12 6EY
Tel: +44(0) 1626 821725 Fax: +44(0) 1626 824912

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 12 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:24:37 -0000
From: "Sean MacLochlainn"
To:
Subject: Re: Excerpts from Irish newspapers

Dennis Ahern wrote:
> DEATHS.
>
> AHEARN--On Dec. 25th, 1912, at his residence,
> Green road, Lismore, Patrick Ahearn. Deeply regretted
> by his sorrowing wife and children. R.I.P. American
> papers please copy.
>
> --The Cork Examiner, 28 December 1912

So what were the names of his sorrowing wife and children? Once again, St
Denis, you have posted something with no genealogical value.

Sean

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 13 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:21:10 -0000
From: "Sean MacLochlainn"
To:
Subject: Re: Genealogy - what and where is it?

Dennis Ahern wrote:
> Sean MacLochlainn () wrote:
>
>> seminaries or the hundreds of thousands of newspaper notices of
>> births/marriages/deaths scattered among newspaper collections. Like
>> The Chief, I wonder if the effort expended by you, Dennis, Cathy and
>> others could be better deployed.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, Cathy and I have been posting a lot of
> birth, death and marriage notices from newspaper collections. And
> the TIARA obituary database has indexed over 7,000 19th century death
> notices from the Cork Examiner. What have you been contributing?

No need to get all bitchy and superior St Denis.

I notice that you have been contributing a lot of drivel about Scots
comedians in amongst your 'selfless' good works.

Sean

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 14 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:11:23 -0500
From: "Sharon Carberry"
To:
Subject: Re: R.C. parish lists and their importance............

"The Chief" wrote:
To me this comes close to the cardinal sin of genealogy - famous name
chasing...The only way to do genealogy is to
work back from what you know, not to make wild stabs at trying to connect to
documented people of a particular surname, even if "rare."

My response:
It depends on much time and effort you care to spend
in your researching. Once someone gets beyond the
newbie stage but is not making progess despite having obtained documentation
for all the known ancestors, there is some opportunity in measures which
stretch across
time and space. First, you can collect obituaries and
biographies in local histories which fall into a "likely"
category based on what you know already, and, second,
you can post about your known ancestors on various
surname bulletin boards. Both these methods have borne
fruit for me in my non-Irish lines. The key is in the
identifying details (makes no difference whether the detail is from a
priest's biography or a prolific merchant's). From a welter of same-named
people, you can distinguish among them if you can connect them to a very
specific locality in a time period. Two examples follow.

This past week, one of those methods paid off, as a saved "likely" obituary
published online in year 2000 was linked via mention of the decedent's small
town in an 1800s news article on brothers visiting each other across a
distance of many hundreds of miles, in the U.S. The obit of this
long-lived person named surviving relatives who were easily contacted and
yielded a goldmine of information from the long-lost brother's descendants.

The posting of mere surnames on a bulletin yielded an overseas cousin, whose
family had saved a photo of my grandmother's brothers with no knowledge of
who they were. I identified it for them; the photos I have of the same
generation match the ones they had been sent. After being out of touch with
the American branch for over 60 years, the overseas family sent me a few
details which led to my finding several stray members of the American
branch. Do I mind that one of the members of the overseas family hap-pens
to appear in widely-published new stories as being in the circle of power
which includes a famous world leader ? No, and if I had researched how that
fellow had my ggrandfather's surname, I might have found my overseas cousins
and the rest of my U.S. cousins a lot faster.

Sharon Carberry
Massachusetts

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 15 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:17:39 -0000
From: "Sean MacLochlainn"
To:
Subject: Re: R.C. parish lists and their importance............

M Beaumont wrote:
> Where on Earth did you get the idea I was looking for a Catholic
> priest ? And what makes you think I'm waiting for a priest to
> 'announce' himself ?

I'm not a psychic so pardon me for taking you at your word. On 27/2 you
wrote the following:

"Keep up the good work Jane.
I'm hoping that one day my ancestor might turn up .
Thanks, Mary (in OZ)"


> I have numerous clergy, who's names I know, for generations in the
> "established church", and if their names appear in Jane's lists then I
> am able to locate towns ( which I would never have known about from
> this side of the world) and search through what ever is available re
> that area, in the hope of 'padding out' my family history.

Have you ever tried looking them up in the biographical succession lists of
CoI clergy instead of reinventing the wheel? 'Biographical' means that each
are given a biography (including genealogical info) as far as the
generality of Irish sources allow.


> My ancestors are all those who have gone before me, not just direct
> lines of bare branches.

I think you are confusing ancestor with collateral.



Sean

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 16 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:17:36 +0000 (UTC)
From: (Dennis Ahern)
To:
Subject: Re: Excerpts from Irish newspapers

FATALITY NEAR MACROOM.
----
While repairing the roof of his dwelling, which had
been damaged by the storm on Christmas Eve, a
blacksmith, named Creedon, residing at Clondrohid,
near Macroom, met with an accident which terminated
fatally. The unfortunate man was buried on Monday.

--The Cork Examiner, 31 December 1912

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dennis Ahern | Ireland Newspaper Abstracts
Acton, Massachusetts | http://www.newspaperabstracts.com/Ireland
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 17 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:13:34 +0000 (UTC)
From: (Dennis Ahern)
To:
Subject: Re: ARNOLD'S AND BARRY'S OF YOUGHAL Co Cork (also links with Limerick and Waterford)

See: http://www.4qd.org/youghal/
Youghal Genealogy

This, and other useful links, can be reached from the TIARA web site.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Dennis Ahern | The Irish Ancestral Research Association
Acton, Massachusetts | Dept. W, P.O. Box 619, Sudbury, MA 01776
| http://www.tiara.ie
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 18 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 19:11:06 GMT
From: "Is Mise Gan Ainm"
To:
Subject: Re: Departure for Quebec

|| In message <>, elebourd
|| writes
SNIP>> my
||| g-grandfather Owen Thomas Connick, who was born and
||| raised in Kilbraney, Co. Wexford, and came to Quebec,
||| Canada, at some point between 1836 and 1843. My
||| question is: where would he likely have gotten on a
||| ship? SNIP>>>

In news:zV5HcHMfF$X+,
Don Moody typed:

|| Cork is much more likely. Over a million left Ireland
|| via Cork, and it is - by the standards of the times, a
|| relatively short walk from Wexford.

When it comes to Emmigration to Quebec, one ought not
overlook the Ports of Limerick and Waterford, as Emigrants
became a profitable form of ballast on the outward journeys
for the ships that returned from Quebec with Lumber.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date:
2/25/03

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 19 message/rfc822 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:09:35 +1100
From: "Susie Zada"
To:
Subject: Re: R.C. parish lists and their importance............

Hi Folks,

I'm only replying to these comments so that some won't be misled by
"incorrect" information ...................

"The Chief" wrote in message
news:...

> Well Susie Z, the reference to a photograph rather gives the game
> away, doesn't it. Did they have photographs in the early 1800s? No.

I'm afraid I never actually mentioned "early 1800s" ........ as you can see
below I specifically mentioned 1860s and 1870s and we definitely had
photographers in Australia by then. I have wonderful copies of a
daguerreotype of ancestors taken in Sydney in 1858. BUT, I didn't even
claim the photos were takin IN the 1860s or 1870s - in fact it was the 1870s
onewards, when the "children" were in their teens, twenties etc. etc.

So what's your problem Chief? Having a bad day or just like being negative?
Oh well, we did mention photographs, so I guess that's where the negative
attitude comes in?

Regards ............ Susie Z

> "Susie Zada" wrote in message
news:...
> > Hi Sean & others,
> >
> > Just sharing a personal experience - in this case with nuns in the Mercy
> > order, and Marist Brothers. One of my Irish ancestors who married in
> > Australia had 4 daughters enter the Mercy Convent, and 2 sons enter the
> > Marist Brothers. The children were born in the 1860s and 1870s.
>

______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 20 message/rfc822 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 11:34:06 -0500
From: "Helen Ramsay"
To:
Subject: Re: Mary Buchanan McRobert of Stranraer, Scotland (from about 1774 to about 1855)

wrote in message
news:...
> On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:19:28 GMT, I read these words from
> (Sam Sloan) :

>
> You had the humor by-pass op, didn't you ?
>
> Ooops, maybe you didn't need it.........
> I just looked at your home page : http://ishipress.com/
>
> Just, on the off chance, that you are one of those totally
> humor-deficient Murkins who sometimes drift into either
> scs or sci (our cousins over the water) I will clarify.

Did you read this page Ian? I thought it was pretty humourous :)

http://ishipress.com/dishwash.htm

Cheers, Helen




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more


This thread: