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Archiver > GREATWAR > 2000-11 > 0973233435


From: Iain Kerr <>
Subject: Re: [WW1] Guarding German Prisoners
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 06:37:15 +0000
In-Reply-To: <001801c044fc$b91e6c40$421c3c3e@tinypc>


At 18:42 02/11/00, ann marie roberts wrote:
>Hi List,
> I asked for details some time ago about a great uncle, Elijah
> Turley and the two photos I had of him wearing uniform with different cap
> badges. The Kings Liverpool Reg.cap badge and the Norfolk Yeomanry cap
> badge. He was a sergeant in both uniforms.
>I have since discovered that he was guarding German Prisoners during the
>war. Born in 1878 he would have been 36 when the war started. He was still
>at home in 1915 baptising a child, occupation Master Keysmith. He also
>mentions on the back of one of the photos wearing the Liverpool uniform,
>" If there are any letters from Ireland please send them on." Would he be
>allowed to take his family to Ireland with him if he was garrisoned there?
>Were there prisoner of war camps there? Which regiment would be the most
>likely one to be guarding prisoners?
> He was in the Boer War I have a photograph of him and it looks as if he
> had a wound stripe on his lower right sleeve. I was told that he was a
> sergeant then. Could he have been a reserve if he didn't join the war
> until the end of 1915 or 1916.
>I hope someone can help.

Ann Marie,

It would seem that your great uncle was an ex-regular soldier with service
in the Boer War who volunteered to enlist in 1914 or 1915. It seems that
he first joined the King's (Liverpool) Regiment either as a reservist, a
territorial or a direct re-enlistment. But probably due to his age he was
employed on home service. The transfer to the Norfolk Yeomanry is
inexplicable since the King's regiment had plenty of battalions that were
employed at home. But the basic information on the two units is:

During World War I, The King's (Liverpool) Regiment raised a total of 49
battalions that served in every theatre. These were raised from a pre-war
establishment of two regular, two reserve and six territorial battalions.
This included the Liverpool Scottish and Liverpool Irish battalions. The
regiment was awarded 58 battle honours and seven of its officers and men
won Victoria Crosses. The King's Regiment lost 14,200 casualties during
the Great War.

The Norfolk Yeomanry (The King's Own Royal Regiment) was raised in 1901 at
the express wish of King Edward VII, it was granted the "Royal" suffix
immediately. In common with other territorial units, on the outbreak of
WWI, The Norfolk Yeomanry divided into two lines. Later the second line
split to produce a third line. These were referred to as the 1/1st, 2/1st
and 3/1st Norfolk Yeomanry.

The 1/1st Norfolk Yeomanry was mobilised at Cattle Market Street, Norwich
on 4 Aug 1914 in the Eastern Mounted Brigade. On 12 Aug 1914 it moved to
Woodbridge with the brigade in 1st Mounted Division. In Jul 1915 it moved
closer to the coast. In Sep 1915 it was dismounted and embarked in the
"Olympic" at Liverpool for the Dardanelles, landing at Anzac beach on 10
Oct 1915. The battalion and brigade was attached to 54th Division. In Dec
1915 the battalion was withdrawn from Gallipoli to Egypt. On 22 Feb 1916
the Eastern and South-Eastern Mounted Brigades formed into the 3rd
Dismounted Brigade that was used on Suez Canal defences until Jul 1916,
then attached to the Western Frontier Force. On 7 Feb 1917 the regiment
formed the 12th (Norfolk Yeomanry) Battalion, The Norfolk Regiment in 230th
Brigade and 74th Division. In May 1918 the battalion was sent to France
with 74th Division, landing at Marseilles on 7 May 1918. The battalion was
transferred to 94th Brigade in 31st Division on 21 Jun 1918.

The 2/1st Norfolk Yeomanry was formed in 1914. In Jan 1915 it was in 2/1st
Eastern Mounted Brigade in Ely. In Mar 1915 it was transferred to 4th
Mounted Division in the Wivenhoe, Essex area. In Jul 1916 it became a
cyclist unit in 5th Cyclist Brigade and 2nd Cyclist Division in the same
area. In Nov 1916 the 2nd Cyclist Division was broken up and the regiment,
with the 2/1st Suffolk Yeomanry formed the 7th (Norfolk and Suffolk
Yeomanry) Cyclist Regiment in 3rd Cyclist Brigade at Ipswich. In May 1918
it was despatched to Ireland with 3rd Cyclist Brigade and was based at
Boyle and Colloney.

The 3/1st Norfolk Yeomanry was formed in 1915 and affiliated to a reserve
cavalry regiment in Eastern Command. In summer 1916 it was attached to the
3rd line groups of the East Anglian Division at Halton Park, Tring. Early
in 1917 the regiment was disbanded with personnel transferred to the 2nd
line unit and 4th (Reserve) Battalion, The Norfolk Regiment.

There were German PWS held in camps throughout the UK, including Ireland
and these were guarded by units based at home. I can find no reference to
the 1/1st Norfolk Yeomanry that served in Ireland being employed in that role.
The answer may be found in his service records, if they have survived.
The British armed services personnel records for those serving in 1914 up
to 1921 are currently being released from the Ministry of Defence to the
Public Record Office, Ruskin Avenue, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU, United
Kingdom; (Telephone: General Enquiries, ++44 (020) 8876 3444; Records
Information, ++44 (020) 8392 5200; Fax: ++44 (020) 8878 8905). There they
are being microfilmed to occupy a number of new archives. This is a major
project that is forecast to take a number of years to complete from the
start of the work in 1997. The original documents cannot be viewed due to
their fragile condition. It will be some years before all surviving
information from these documents will be available remotely due to the
complexity of the information and volume. The records are available in the
PRO microfilm reading room as follows:

The so-called "burnt" British Army Other Ranks records for surnames
beginning with A, B, C, D, E, F, N, O, Q, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y and Z. These
are in WO 363 - First World War Soldiers' Documents. Those beginning R
will be available in Autumn 2000 and P in Winter 2000. The year 2001
includes those beginning K, L and M. In 2002 those starting H, I and J
will be released. The programme concludes in Summer 2003 with the letter G.

You should note that there is some risk that the official archives of more
recent British Army personnel records are incomplete. It is reported that
up to half of the original pre-World War II British Army soldier's personal
records were badly damaged by fire and water following a 1940 German
bombing raid on the Hayes Record Office during World War II. Those that
survived are often incomplete and in a poor condition.

These records are open for personal search by the enquirer or a nominated
agent. Details of the PRO can be found at their web site URL:
http://www.pro.gov.uk/

The PRO do not have an on-line searchable archive. Nor do they usually
undertake any research for personal or postal enquirers. However they
have a list of independent researchers, with a useful search facility. The
address is: http://www.pro.gov.uk/readers/irlist/default.htm
Yours aye,

Iain Kerr
In Windsor, Berkshire
Web Page at: http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/index.htm
RootsWeb Sponsor Listowner for the KERR; McTURK and SOUTHON lists and the
WORLDWAR2 list.
Maintainer of the Ayrshire Surnames Index Database at:
http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/genuki/AYR/SID/indexsid.htm
Maintainer of the GENUKI Ayrshire pages at:
http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/genuki/AYR/index.htm

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