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Archiver > GREATWAR > 2001-08 > 0996785729


From: "james.mcknight" <>
Subject: Re: [WW1] Royal Fusiliers
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:55:29 +0100
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010801052740.009f05d0@pop.clara.net>



----- Original Message -----
From: Iain Kerr <>
To: ntlworld-Mail <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WW1] Royal Fusiliers


> At 22:06 31/07/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >Hi All
> >
> >My Great-grandfather, Edward John STANFORD, died of wounds on 19 April
1916
> >in No. 33 Casualty Clearing Station, Bethune. At the time of his death
he
> >was serving in the 8th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London
Regiment)
> >as a private, number 12489.
> >
> >Unfortunately his records have not survived. However I have a copy of
his
> >Medal Rolls and a copy of the War Diary for 1 March 1916 to 21 April
1916.
> >
> > >From the Medal Rolls I can see that the Theatre of War that he first
served
> >in was the Balkans his entry date being 20 July 1915. He left there on 8
> >September 1915, family history says that he came home due to a stomach
> >injury. From the Medal Rolls it appears that he may have been in the 2nd
> >Battalion Royal Fusiliers.
> >
> >He then seems to have joined the 8th Battalion on 8 March 1916 in France,
> >until his death six weeks later.
> >
> >Another family tale is that he was a member of a Bantam Regiment. I have
a
> >photograph of him in uniform and he does look short! I am aware that
Bantam
> >Regiments were formed of men 5' to 5'3" tall with a chest measurement of
at
> >least 30", but I didn't think that any Bantam Regiments saw service until
> >1916 and then only in France.
> >
> >He enlisted in Stoke-on-Trent and I am not aware of any reason why he
would
> >join a City of London Regiment. He was about 35 years old when he died,
a
> >miller and left behind a wife, six children and a seventh on the way.
> >
> >Can anyone suggest why he might have joined a City of London Regiment?
> >Could he have been in a Bantam Regiment? Am I right in thinking he was
in
> >the 2nd Battalion when he was in the Balkans?
> >
> >If anyone would like to see his photograph or a copy of his Victory Medal
> >Roll I can e-mail them.

From: Iain Kerr Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:52 AM

> Michelle
>
> "Soldiers Died in the Great War" confirms what you have found, including
> that he was born at Wellington, Staffordshire, resident at Bucknall,
> Staffordshire and enlisted at Stoke on Trent. The massive rush of men to
> enlist in August and September 1914 meant that men were directed into
units
> with no reference to their origins. There is no reference to service in
> any other regiment.
>
> Usually the new volunteers went into the service battalions of the new
> armies being formed with Kitchener's "first hundred thousand". Thereafter
> men who were injured or suffered serious illness would have been
> hospitalised and placed on a non-effectives list and assigned to a reserve
> battalion as a holding unit. Once recovered the man would be either
posted
> to a battalion in his own regiment needing reinforcements or, as was often
> the case, to another regiment entirely.
>
> The Balkans reference in 1915 is of course to the Dardanelles operation on
> Gallipoli.
>
> The 2nd Battalion, The Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) was
> serving in Calcutta on the outbreak of war on 4 Aug 1914. It embarked for
> the UK and on arrival in Jan 1915,joined 86th Brigade in 29th Division at
> Stockingford, near Nuneaton, Warwickshire. In Mar 1915 it embarked at
> Avonmouth for the Dardanelles, via Lemnos on 11 Apr, landing at Gallipoli
> on 25 Apr 1915. The battalion took part in the force withdrawal to Egypt
> on 8 Jan 1916.
>
> The 8th (Service) Battalion, The Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)
> was formed at Hounslow on 21 Aug 1914. It was assigned to the first of
> Kitchener's new armies and was assigned to 36th Brigade in 12th Division
at
> Colchester. In Nov 1914 the battalion moved to Hythe, Kent and in Feb
1915
> to Aldershot for final training. In May 1915 it embarked for France and
> Flanders. The 8th Battalion was disbanded on 6 Feb 1918 in France.
>
> You are quite right about bantam battalions. For many years, the minimum
> regulation height for recruits into the
> British Army was 5 ft. 3 ins. This requirement was lowered in 1915, to
> allow more men to enlist. They were recruit as volunteers in newly formed
> "bantam" battalions. Over 50,000 under-height soldiers served in bantam
> battalions formed in a number of British infantry regiments and two
> Canadian infantry battalions. But as far as I know no Royal Fusiliers
> battalions were bantam battalions.
>
> (Sources: "British Regiments, 1914-1919"; by Brigadier E A James;
published
> in two volumes in single volume 4th Edition in 1993 by Naval and Military
> Press, London; ISBN 0 906304 03 2 and other documents.}

Iain

Thank you very much for the information.

You stated that the 2nd Battalion Kings Fusiliers embarked in March 1915 at
Gallipolli, but my ggrandfather only joined them on 20 July 1915. How long
was the training he received, likely to have taken? Is he likely to have
signed up in 1914, but not be ready to travel with the rest of the battalion
in March? Or is it more likely that he joined after the initial rush?

I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Michelle

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