GREATWAR-L Archives

Archiver > GREATWAR > 2001-08 > 0997134866


From: Charles Clark <>
Subject: [WW1] Re: GREATWAR-D Digest V01 #236
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 09:54:26 +1200
References: <200108062100.f76L0qf20830@lists7.rootsweb.com>


Both Tom and Iain would appear to have gotten themselves caught up in
the nexus between war history and national culture. Suggesting to a New
Zealander that the Gallipoli landings started on April 24 is much akin
to suggesting that Christmas is on December 24th, or that the
Remembrance Day commemorations are on November 10th.
Anzac Day (25th April) is a national holiday in both Australia and New
Zealand. Whatever the facts are about the timing of the landings, the
politically correct version is to be found at
http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/1landing/bartlett.html

wrote:

>
> Subject: Re: [WW1] Re: Royal Fusiliers
> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 06:23:33 +0100
> From: Iain Kerr <>
> To:
>
> At 07:35 06/08/01 +1200, june castle wrote: citing GREATWAR-D Digest V01 #234
> >Iain
> >You mentioned that the Royal Fusiliers didnt land on Gallipoli until 24th
> >April. Just a minor point. I always understood the first landings on
> >Gallipoli were on the 25th April by the Aussies at 4.30am and New
> >Zealanders at about 9am Am I right or am I wrong?
> >June Castle, Auckland, NZ
>
> June,
>
> IN assisting someone to identify which battalion of a large regiment a man
> served in, I cited the date that the 2nd Battalion, Royal Fusiliers arrived
> in the Gallipoli area. I made no claim about that battalion going ashore
> and would not wish to engage in any debate on that subject. But you should
> consider that before the landings, the troops of all nations involved were
> embarked on ships in the Dardanelles area for some time.
>
> Incidentally, it is extremely irritating when you break a thread by
> replying to a Digest message and then include the entire digest as an
> attachment. Some practical editing is all that is needed in order to
> maintain the thread.
>
> Yours aye,
>
> Iain Kerr in Windsor, Berkshire, United Kingdom
> Web Page at: http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/index.htm
> RootsWeb Sponsor and Listowner for the WORLDWAR2 Mailing List.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [WW1] Sorry, Sorry
> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:11:39 +1200
> From: june castle <>
> To:
>
> Iain
> My sincere apologies. I wont do it again!
> June Castle, Auckland, NZ
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [WW1] Re: Royal Fusiliers
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:38:05 +0100
> From: "Tom Tulloch-Marshall" <>
> To:
>
> "I always understood the first landings on Gallipoli were on the 25th April
> by the Aussies at 4.30am and New Zealanders at about 9am Am I right or am I
> wrong? >June Castle, Auckland, NZ"
> >
> June - It is dangerous to try to be over-precise with these things as
> inevitably the "facts" owe much to the post event recollections of those who
> took part in what were often very confused happenings; - and the "confusion"
> regarding Gallipoli has probably been greatly added to by "history according
> to Mel Gibson" (!)
>
> You appear in fact to be partly correct -
>
> The Official History Of The War, "Military Operations Gallipoli" volume 1
> (Historical Section Committee Of Imperial Defence, William Heinemann,
> London, 1936) says that the "cover force" of 1,500 men from the 9th, 10th,
> and 11th Australian Infantry Battalions cast their tows fifty yards from
> "Anzac" at 4:25am on the 25th and that 4,000 Australian Troops were ashore
> by 5am, and another 4,000 by 8am. - "General Birdwood signalled that he was
> landing one and a half battalions of the New Zealand Infantry Brigade ..."
> at "about 10:45am" - but it's not entirely clear whether those were the
> first NZ troops ashore.
>
> Landing time of the first British Troops is equally imprecise, - the
> trawlers and cutters taking them onto Y Beach were under the cliffs there at
> 4:15am - so effectively you seem to be looking at virtually simultaneous
> landings by Aussies and Brits. The Off-Hist is delightfully vague about the
> 2nd Royal Fusiliers, but it places two Companies, Battalion HQ, and the
> machine-gun section at the top of the cliffs on X Beach "by" 6:30 am on the
> 25th.
>
> regards
> --
> Tom Tulloch-Marshall
> Great War Military Research
>
> http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch
>

This thread: