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Archiver > GREATWAR > 2001-08 > 0997228871


From: Charles Clark <>
Subject: [WW1] Re: GREATWAR-D Digest V01 #238
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:01:11 +1200
References: <200108080042.f780gDU08987@lists7.rootsweb.com>


My actual statement was that "Both Tom and Iain would appear to have gotten themselves caught up in the nexus between war history and national
culture."
And I stand by that.

The intention was to point out different things in each case:

Iain was concerned that he had been taken to task over the date of the landings, and in fact he was quite right in the (military) sense that for
a dawn landing on the 25th, one gets organised on the day before. Ashmead-Bartlett begins his reporting with a sail-past at 2 o’clock on April
24, and that can perhaps be considered the beginning of the operation. Which is perhaps a novel approach to a lot of Australians and New
Zealanders who have grown up with the tradition that Anzac Day is April 25, Christmas is on December 25, and of course, others will be familiar
with the notion that Remembrance Day commemorates the signing of the Armistice on November 11.

Tom Tulloch-Marshall, on the other hand, seems to have a hang-up not over the date, but over the accuracy of reporting of an event which is
taken more seriously in this part of the world than in others. I noted that "Whatever the facts are about the timing of the landings, the
politically correct version is to be found at
http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/1landing/bartlett.html "
"politically correct" because of course this is an official
government-sponsored commemorative site.
I'm quite happy to do as he suggests and "refer back to (his) mail on this subject", specifically the part where he says:

"June - It is dangerous to try to be over-precise with these things as inevitably the "facts" owe much to the post event recollections of those
who took part in what were often very confused happenings; - and the "confusion" regarding Gallipoli has probably been greatly added to by
"history according to Mel Gibson" (!)"

No, I doubt that Mel Gibson has anything to do with it, and some might find the suggestion as offensive as whatever joke it was that Tom
declined to repeat about ----. The page quoted above was written long before Mel Gibson was even thought of, let alone making movies, and Anzac
commemorations are not, so far as I am aware, based on Hollywood-style recreations, either in New Zealand or in Australia. Any more than are
Remembrance Day commemorations in England or those on Veterans Day in the US.

The material quoted was written, as I read it, in April 1915 by a war correspondent on board a ship within earshot of the landings. His
apparently precise timings
("At 4.53 came a sharp burst of rifle fire from the beach. The sound relieved the prolonged suspense which had become almost intolerable. The
rifle fire lasted a few minutes, and a faint British cheer came over the waters, telling us that the first position was won.
"At three minutes past 5 the fire was intensified. By the sound of the reports we could tell that our men were in action. The firing lasted for
23 minutes, and then died down somewhat.)
suggest that he was taking notes at the time and referring to a watch as he did so.

Tom Tulloch-Marshall wrote:

> > Both Tom and .... New Zealander that the Gallipoli landings started on
> April 24." (Charles Clarke).
> >
> THANKS CHARLES, - for "correcting" me for having made a statement which I
> never made.

I have not corrected you for having made a statement you never made, though you have done so to me, by amalgamating two sentences into one. If
you reread my post, slowly this time, you will note that the comment about the date of April 24th was in a different sentence to your name, and
was not part of the same statement.
I will repeat the statement: that you also appear to have gotten
yourself caught up in the nexus between war history and national culture. In your case not over the date but over "over-precision" and perhaps
also the difference between "history according to Mel Gibson" and the real thing.
Charles Clark


wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [WW1] getting the date right !?
> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:17:56 +0100
> From: "Tom Tulloch-Marshall" <>
> To:
>
> > Both Tom and .... New Zealander that the Gallipoli landings started on
> April 24." (Charles Clarke).
> >
> THANKS CHARLES, - for "correcting" me for having made a statement which I
> never made. If you refer back to my mail on this subject you will find that
> I do know the date of the Gallipoli landings - which is not the date you
> mention above.
>
> (tempted though I am, I feel obliged to give due consideration to Claire's
> blood-pressure so I'll say no more ! - I wont even repeat that joke
> about ----------- because I think that's very cruel to the antipodes).
>
> regards
> --
> Tom Tulloch-Marshall
> Great War Military Research
>
> http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch
>

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