GREATWAR-L Archives

Archiver > GREATWAR > 2001-10 > 1002083092


From: Iain Kerr <>
Subject: Re: [WW1] New to list
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 05:24:52 +0100
In-Reply-To: <02de01c14b85$ff56d9a0$72902bcf@hunters>


At 17:05 02/10/01 -0400, Steve & Lori wrote:
>Hi,
>I am hoping to find info on my great grandparents. Richard James Richards
>(aka Jim Richards) and Dorothy F. Pratt were both born in England, met and
>married during the war in Penzance, Cornwall, England.
>Jim was a soldier and Dorothy worked in the army pay office in
>London. According to Jim, they were married Friday 08 Oct, 1918 and he
>was back to the front on Monday.
>
>What I know:
>Richard James Richards was born in the Germoe/Breage area of Cornwall in
>1898, orphaned at age 11. He joined the army in 1915 (lied about his
>age). I have a photo of him seated in a chair in uniform. He has some
>type of *cane* held between his legs with his hands covering the top. He
>has a patch on his left lower arm that is round with the initials AAS over
>a pair of olive? leaves. I believe it stands for Anti Aircraft Section,
>as I know he was an anti aircraft gunner. His hat is not in the photo.
>
>Other clues to his service:
>-his son has told me that his hat had a badge on the front and on the
>rear. I do not know what either looked like, or whether they were the
>same badge.
>-he received a 'Lord Wakefield of Hythes Commemorative medal' for the
>shooting down of the L-15 zepplin 31 Mar - 01 Apr 1916.
>
>What I would like to know:
>-Are the records for the Army pay office in London available, and do they
>have any helpful information?
>-Can anyone help me identify the *unit* that Richard James Richards served
>with?
>
>I appreciate any help,
>Lori Sue Johnson nee Richards
>Michigan, USA

Lori Sue,

There are not many clues as to what unit Richard James Richards served in,
and some are confusing.

There is only one regiment in the British Army which has two cap badges -
one at the front and one at the rear. That is The Gloucestershire Regiment
that bears the Sphinx as its badge worn at both the back and the front of
the cap, unique within the British Army, giving rise to the regiment's
nickname of the 'Fore and Aft'. The sphinx badge commemorates the 28th
Regiment's gallantry in resisting a French cavalry attack in front and rear
at Alexandria on 21 Mar 1801.

But Anti-Aircraft Sections were units in the Royal Artillery, a very large
corps. There were literally hundreds of the sections in the UK and in
France and Flanders, all of them war-raised units which were disbanded
after the Armistice in 1918.

The "cane" is a walking-out cane - an unofficial accoutrement much liked by
soldiers for wear in uniform but not on parade.

During the Great War with a massively expanded army to administer the Pay
Offices (of which there were several before 1914) expanded widely with many
temporary offices being created throughout the UK. These were civil
service organisations and I know of no archives that could help here.

The best method of identifying which regiment or corps Richard James
Richards served in is to research the War Office archives at the PRO,
either personally or by an agent.

The British armed services personnel records for those serving in 1914 up
to 1921 are currently being released from the Ministry of Defence to the
Public Record Office, Ruskin Avenue, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU, United
Kingdom; (Telephone: General Enquiries, ++44 (0) 208 876 3444; Records
Information, ++44 (0) 208 392 5200; Fax: ++44 (020) 8878 8905). There they
are being microfilmed to occupy a number of new archives. This is a major
project that is forecast to take a number of years to complete from the
start of the work in 1997. The original documents cannot be viewed due to
their fragile condition. It will be some years before all surviving
information from these documents will be available remotely due to the
complexity of the information and volume. The records are available in the
PRO microfilm reading room as follows:

British Army Other Ranks, whose service ended in 1920 or before, may be in
the so-called "burnt" records for surnames beginning with A, B, C, D, E, F,
N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y and Z. These are in WO 363 - First
World War Soldiers' Documents. The year 2001 will see release of those
beginning K, L and M. In 2002 those starting H, I and J will be released.
The programme concludes in Summer 2003 with the letter G. It was announced
in November 2000 that the filming of these documents is to be accelerated
with a new target completion date for the project of 30 April 2002. Revised
target completion dates for remaining surname letters will be announced by
the PRO as soon as they have been agreed with the contractor.

You should note that there is some risk that the official archives of more
recent British Army personnel records are incomplete. It is reported that
up to half of the original pre-World War II British Army soldier's personal
records were badly damaged by fire and water following a 1940 German
bombing raid on the Hayes Record Office during World War II. Those that
survived are often incomplete and in a poor condition.

However, the World War I Medal Rolls have survived. If the serviceman or
woman survived World War I and served long enough overseas to qualify for
campaign medals, then they should be found in the Medal Rolls held at the
PRO Kew. The rolls record service (campaign) medal and honours and awards;
the lists are kept in class WO 329. These rolls however give little or no
personal information being confined to the unit, service number, theatres
of war in which the individual served, and the medals awarded. Those who
served in France and Flanders between 5 Aug and 22 Nov 1914 received the
1914 Star (the "Old Contemptibles" medal). Those who served in any war
zones between 5 Aug 1914 and 31 Dec 1915 were awarded the 1914-15
Star. All British and imperial servicemen and women who served outside the
UK between 1914 and 1920 were given the British War Medal and British
forces over the same period also received the Victory Medal. [The three
medals 1914 or 1914/15 Star, the War Medal and the Victory Medal became
known as "Pip, Squeak and Wilfred" to old soldiers.]

All of these records are open for personal search by the enquirer or a
nominated agent. Details of the PRO can be found at their web site URL:
http://www.pro.gov.uk/ The PRO do not have an on-line searchable archive,
but they do now have searchable indexes to the main archives. The PRO do
not usually undertake any research for personal or postal
enquirers. However they now offer a copying service and the PRO maintain
a list of independent researchers, with a useful search facility. The
address is: http://www.pro.gov.uk/readers/irlist/default.htm
Yours aye,

Iain Kerr in Windsor, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Web Page at: http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/index.htm
RootsWeb Sponsor and Listowner for the WORLDWAR2 Mailing List.

This thread: