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From: "David Zincavage" <>
Subject: Re: Query ..
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:52:51 -0700
References: <008301c35977$7c8b9a90$4586aec7@inspiron>


If you are correct in the general date, it would seem most probable that
your ancestor emigrated as the result of the failure of the January
Insurrection of 1863-1864, had served as an insurrectionist, and left to
escape prosecution. Participation in the insurrections tended to be more
common on the part of the gentry than the peasantry, but there were
exceptions, of course.

1. I am not terribly familiar with the specific laws, but my general
understanding is that the Polish Republic erected subsequent to the end of
WWI did not recognize nobility or class divisions officially at all.
Obviously, the Communist government which took power in 1944 did not either.
And the post-Communist government is unlikely to restore official
recognition and privileged status to the noble estate.

I think it would be more correct to say the Polish nobility lost its
official status with the Third Partition of 1795, or as an alternative point
of view, with the absorption of the (Independent) Napoleonic Duchy of Warsaw
in 1815 into the Congress Kingdom, or as another alternative, with the
elimination of the Kingdom of Poland altogether and complete Russification
after the January Insurrection.

2. Poland lost its in 1795. In the Napoleonic period there ennoblements by
the Duchy of Warsaw and the Empire of France. Polish ennoblements took
place in the context of the Congress Kingdom up until 1864. There were
Papal titles awarded for defense of the Catholic faith against Tsarist
persecution in the 19th century. Poles, of course, received titles and
ennoblement from all three partitioning powers right up until 1918, when all
three dynasties were deposed.

3. If one is able to establish descent from anyone living in the past who
was believed at the time to be armigerous, one is regarded as armigous
oneself. Nobility does not necessarily descend from any known ennoblement.
Many people descent from "the immemorial nobility," such families having
been in the noble estate from periods previous to any meaningful
record-keeping. This conceptual distinction in Germany is referred to in
terms of the Ur-Adel and the Briefe-Adel. In France, as the noblesse de
l'epee and the noblesse de la robe. When church records are exhausted, it
may be possible to find some earlier information in notarial records or in
published sources. Probabilities of finding such information would tend to
correlate largely with property ownership & office holding.

4. This is a fairly complicated subject. In Europe in general, the
nobility was in earlier periods the leadership of society in peace and in
war. In Poland-Lithuania the nobility was equivalent to the enfranchised
citizenship of a Republic.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Lassek" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: Query ..


> Over the last few weeks I have been interacting here with the final
intention of gaining an overall perspective of the Polish Nobility, it's
place in Polish society, and such application that may or may not have
affected my ancestral Polish Family and their decision to immigrate to the
US. (Time frame 1867).
>
> My Family is not ennobled, they were of the Serf Class. So in order to
finalize my genealogy work, I feel it necessary to understand this portion
(Nobility) of Polish society, in a general way. For the most part I have
been successful in this endeavor, owing mainly to the many links put up here
for research. I would like to continue my research with specific questions
and I would appreciate any and all response, particularly any links that may
explain an answer in good detail.
>
> 1. In 1921, the first Constitution of the Polish Republic after WW1
terminated all privileges of nobility and forbade the usage of arms (art
96). The later Constitution of 1935 (art 81) cancelled this paragraph, so
this meant the restitution of some old laws regarding the use of arms and
honorary titles. However, the privileges were cancelled by another paragraph
of the same Constitution which says that all citizens are equal by law. Such
a situation remains to this day. (www.szlachta.org/heraldry.htm).
>
> Question: By the above, it would be my understanding that the Polish
Nobility, as a closed society, a class unto itself, was terminated as an
active governmental force as of 1921. Is this understanding correct ??
>
> Question: Although terminated in 1921, the Polish Nobility with all
records and documents stayed intact as an entity to this day. Is this
correct ??
>
> Question: In today's Poland, are there events or opportunities made
available, for the Nobility such as Honorary appearances at governmental
functions ?? Does the Polish government maintain an "office" devoted to
interaction with the Polish Nobility ??
>
> 2. The references are unclear as to when ennoblement ceased in Poland.
Does anyone have specifics ??
>
> 3. I am not clear as to how to proceed. Several fellow genealogists have
surnames that I have seen in the Nobility references that I have researched
and I have told them as much. I understand that if they are to claim
ennoblement, they must show a direct and unbroken line back to the Noble,
however, I am not clear as to how one would do this. Other than Church
records which only date to the 1650's if one is fortunate, how would one
proceed further back ??
>
> 4. I understand that the purpose of the Polish Nobility, say in the 10th
century as an example, was to protect the State (general statement),
however, I'm not clear as to how this was usually accomplished. The obvious
of course was for the Nobility to muster and consequently march off to
physically fight the enemy. Is this statement more or less true ??
>
> Thank you for any response.
>
> Tom Lassek
> Eufaula Alabama
>
>

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