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Archiver > HERBARZ > 2003-08 > 1060274073


From: "David Zincavage" <>
Subject: Re: The Pokrzywnicki (Bock) family's real coat of arms - a puzzling case
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:34:33 -0700
References: <20030807160750.38142.qmail@web12501.mail.yahoo.com>


What you describe as "palm fronds" may be an attempt to represent
lambrequins, an optional decorative element of the armorial achievement,
which represents a headcloth worn over the helmet to protect the it from the
heat of the sun. The lambrequins are depicted so as to show both sides, and
the colors of the two sides echo the colors of the field and the principal
charge.

Most people were not experts in heraldry, and did not own a reference
library on the subject, so when the time came to produce a new drawing of
the family coat of arms, the impact individual tastes, errors of memory,
incorrect identifications with similar designs, frequently produced heraldic
errors or alterations. This is why we find again and again in compilations
like Kasprzycki's that branches of the same family use all sorts of
different arms.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nikolai v. Pock" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:07 AM
Subject: The Pokrzywnicki (Bock) family's real coat of arms - a puzzling
case


>
> 07.08.2003
>
>
> The Pokrzywnicki (Bock) family's real coat of arms - a
> puzzling case
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I posted earlier some request about the history and
> genealogy of my family: "(von) Pokrzywnicki", also
> "von Bock" in East Prussia, originally from Mazovia.
>
> As concerns our coat of arms (COA), I have several
> seals of different persons from the time around 1800
> which--following Ostrowski (1897)--I would identify as
> Slepowron odm. (picture at:
> http://www.geocities.com/pokrzywnickiana/ )
>
> A recent find has puzzled me somewhat. It is the COA
> used by the Royal Polish lieutenant Stanislaus (von)
> Pokrzywnicki (* about 1665, + 1735) on a contract in
> 1717. It is clearly identifiable as Jastrzebiec and
> the oldest seal from a member of my family I am aware
> of.
>
> I would be inclined to think that the probability of
> him knowing his correct COA is higher than that of his
> later relatives.
>
> This would then suggest that my family really belongs
> to the clan Jastrzebiec.
>
> Which in turn would probably also explain why Polish
> herbarze have never really located my family in Poland
> at any specific Pokrzywnica, and only Uruski (1904)
> knows of Pokrzywnicki herbu Jastrzebiec and locates
> them at the same place that I was told my family
> originates from, viz. Pokrzywnica, pow. Mlawa. So this
> would fit in neatly.
>
> It only begs the question: how could my ancestors have
> developed their COA from the original Jastrzebiec to a
> form identifiable as Slepowron odm.? Pure negligence
> either on their part or that of the sealmaker? Or a
> deliberate decision? Can anyone help or has seen
> similar cases?
>
> Another request would concern the form of the newly
> discovered seal itself. A description would be: At the
> centre is the shield of the Jastrzebiec COA (a
> horseshoe, opened to the top (like an U), that
> contains a chevalier's cross (like +). On top of that
> shield is a crown with five "leafs" in which the hawk
> stands with the figure from the shield in one talon.
> The shield itself is surrounded at each side by
> (probably) a palm frond (probably, or an ostrich
> feather?); those cross at the bottom. Around this
> figure (here symolized as [*] )are placed letters in
> the following scheme:
>
> S N
> [*]
> P P
>
> Does anyone know how to interpret this seal? S and P
> on the left could obviously be Stanislaus
> Pokrzywnicki's initals, but what the about N and P on
> the right (not his wife's initals, whose name is Anna
> Maria, née von Diebandt)? Could they be an
> abbreviation for anything? What do the palm fronds
> signify (if they signify anything at all and are not
> purely graphical elements)?
>
> I would appreciate any suggestions and/or enlightening
> remarks very much indeed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nikolai von Pock
> Berlin, Germany
>
> Ostrowski, Juliusz hr., 1897, Ksiega herbowa rodów
> polskich [Wappenbuch der polnischen Geschlechter; nur
> bis Buchstabenfolge Sylm]. 19 Lieferungen, Warszawa
> [Warschau]: B. Bolcewicz, druk Józef Sikorski,
> 1897-1905.
>
> Uruski, Seweryn hr., 1904, Rodzina - Herbarz szlachty
> polskiej opracowany przez Seweryna hrabiego Uruskiego,
> przy wspóludziale Adama Amilkara Kosinskiego,
> wykonczony i uzupelniony przez Aleksandra
> Wlodarskiego. Wyd. staraniem i kosztem córek autora.
> 22 vols., Warszawa: Gebethner i Wolff, 1904-38. In
> vol. 14 (1917) p. 175-177.
>
>
> =====
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.geocities.com/pokrzywnickiana/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> site dedicated to the von Pokrzywnicki (von Bock 1775) family in East
Prussia 1650-1945
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
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>
>

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