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Archiver > PACE > 2008-04 > 1208476873


From: "Roy Johnson" <>
Subject: Re: [PACE] Frederick of Wales group - Preliminary results 113987
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:01:13 -0500
References: <000301c8a020$78665870$69330950$@edu><BAY134-W298DCEF32F551E30B733CFABE50@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY134-W298DCEF32F551E30B733CFABE50@phx.gbl>


A minor point or two that we might make:

DNA does not prove that Frederick was from Wales; that is a family
tradition.

Being from "Wales" could mean several things. There never was a Kingdom of
Wales, as there was a Kingdom of Scotland. Wakes was where the people who
spoke Welsh lived. Along the border, English and Welsh speakers mixed, and
the border changed frequently. The largest concentration of Paces in Britain
was along this border. This was still true in the 19th century.

To see a map of this, go to
http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/Map.aspx?name=PACE&year=1881&altyear=19
98&country=GB&type=name

The areas shown in the colors for the highest percentage are just on the
English side of what is currently considered "Wales". The profiler does not
show any Paces in the actual area of Wales itself.

One branch of the John of Middlesex family has a letter and tradition that
they are from Wales. However, this does not mean that they are in any way
related to the Frederick branch, as DNA has shown that they are not. Our
best candidate for John of M is John Pace b. 1665 in Prees, Shropshire, just
three miles from the present area defined as "Wals". He might indeed have
considered himself to be from Wales and passed on that information. As I
said, this does not in any sense imply a relationship with Frederick or his
descendents.

One can therefore speculate that perhaps Frederick and John were from
different Pace families in this general area.

What the DNA establishes is that we have three distinct lines of Paces,
unrelated to each other in genealogical time.

Roy Johnson



-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On Behalf
Of Janders 45
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:43 AM
To:
Subject: [PACE] Frederick of Wales group - Preliminary results 113987

This makes our fifth sample from the Frederick of Wales group, so let me
outline the situation for those who don't follow this group closely.
Frederick had three sons, all of whom moved to Clarke Co, AL, between 1809
and 1822. These sons were, by age:

1. William
2. John
3. Dempsey

For several years, we have had samples from 3 closely related donors
(father, son, uncle), all of whom descend from one son of John. About a
year ago, we obtained results from a donor who descends from a second son of
John. The results reported by Roy yesterday are from a donor who descends
from William, the brother of John and the eldest son of Frederick.

These results are important in that they provide additional evidence that
allows us to choose between conflicting theories about this group:

1. Descent from Frederick Pace who immigrated to the colonies not long
before the Revolution. This version is supported by several old sources,
most notably by the biography of Dr. Jesse M. Pace of Dallas.

2. Descent from John (the Tory) Pace m. Sarah and, through him, back to
Richard of Jamestown. This version originated in the speculations of Bruce
Howard in his book. To make this version work, Mr. Howard had to assume
that the Pace brothers who moved to Clarke Co had lied about who their
father was.

Since the five samples match each other and do not match descendents of John
the Tory nor any other Pace group, I think that we can safely conclude that
Mr. Howard's theory has been conclusively disproved.

Joe Anderson



> From: > To: > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008
19:17:48 -0500> Subject: [PACE] Preliminary results 113987> > Results 1-12
are in and show a perfect match for the modal in the Wales> group. Here is
the lineage:> > > > 1. Donor> > 2. Father> > 3. Grandfather> William Earle
Pace> born August 1875> > 4. John J. Pace> born 1840 in Clarke Co, AL> > 5.
Dempsey P. Pace> born 1810 in Wilkinson Co, GA> > 6. William Pace> born abt
1757> died June 1826 in Clarke Co, AL> > > > More proof that this is a
unique group. The rest of the results should be in> soon.> > > > I have
entered these results in the Wales chart and on the Donors page.> > > > Roy
Johnson
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