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Archiver > TMG > 2001-03 > 0983469349


From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: Re: [TMG] FILTER problem
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:55:49 -0800
References: <46.11270696.27cc58f5@cs.com><3A9BE6A8.628A0A3D@bellatlantic.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010228120027.02fbb770@127.0.0.1>


I don't think so.

When I took history back in the Dark Ages in high school, I studied events
in the order they occurred. That is to say, I studied about Hannibal
crossing the Alps before I learned about the Great Depression. I am under
the impression that most people tend to think in some sort of ordered
fashion. Men are supposed to be better at this ordered fashion business
then women so it surprises me that the most ardant opponents are male. That
is the whole premise of the selection questions on Who Wants to Be a
Millionaire . . . ordering events. I saw a whole segment on TV how this
works to the advantage of men because they tend to think more in an ordered
fashion then women.

Now if I have Ben Franklin with a data of birth, a spouse but no marriage
date, a date of death, and 6 kids who have no known birthdates, it seems
most logical to me to have the data appear on Ben Franklin's person view as
follows:

Birth
Marriage (needs a sort date to correctly place)
Kid1
Kid2
Kid3 (needs sort dates place)
Kid4
Kid5
Kid 6
Death

Elsewise I end up with all of these events out of sequence. I presently
have the option to select the undated events to appear en masse at the top,
at the bottom, or not at all. Since you cannot create a sort date for a
relationship tag (unfortunate) you must have an empty birth tag for the
children holding only a sort date to place them correctly into the history
of their family. While a scramble of occurrences may appeal to some, to
many it would seem as odd as studying about the Depression before studying
about Hannibal. Without sort dates for events for which you have no actual
dates (but perhaps a tidbit of information . . . a name, place, etc.), how
can you get narrative reports to generate with the information in sequential
order? Don't you find it easier to look at a person view, see all of the
events in order, and doesn't it then become much more obvious what is
missing or askew and where you need to dig deeper than trying to make sense
out of a hodge podge of information randomly placed on a page? Or perhaps
some of you just don't care as long as you have the stuff down in the
computer. I find it curious that those who protest the loudest for surety
values don't seem to mind that their information is out of sequential order.

It would seem to me that there are several resolutions to the issue. The
only currently available (unless you wish random information) is to use sort
dates which means -- in many instances -- creating empty tags with sort
dates. One potential solution would be to add sort dates to relationship
tags that are independent of a birth tag for one of the principals, e.g.,
being able to add a sort date to a Dau-XXX or Son-XXX tag that does not
require an empty birth tag for that Dau or Son holding a sort date only.
Other alternatives would be to use some sort of other method to position
information in sequential order, i.e., drag and drop, move up-move down.
Yet another solution would be to not have the children appear in the events
list at all but in a separate location of their own (similar to FTM where
all children appear at the bottom of the page in a separate section); this
idea does not appeal to me.

No one seems reluctant to use sort dates for other tags which have no dates
(i.e., occupation, etc.) as long as they have data. Yet they are merely
using those dates to get a sequential appearance. Why, then, the hesitation
to use birth tags (or death tags) that hold no information other than a sort
date in order to accomplish the same sequential appearance? Using sort
dates to accomplish some sort of logical presentation of your events is the
most bulky of the ways in which this can be accomplished and one which
affects not only the person view on which you are working but additional
generations as well. And, it appears, one that too many are far to willing
to accept for fear of being critical of TMG or angering Bob Velke.



----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Mellen <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TMG] FILTER problem


> Cheri Casper wrote:
> >But don't you need empty birth tags and death tags to hold the "sort
date"
> >information in order to get properly sequenced events?
>
> Huh? Why do you need to sequence an empty event?
>
> >This is my entire point about the use of sort dates and the need for an
> >easier way to order event tags.
>
> Aren't you confusing a "want" with a "need?"
>
> Allen
>
>

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