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Archiver > TMG > 2004-03 > 1078422671


From: "Gregory Winters" <>
Subject: RE: [TMG] FTM Import and Footnotes
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:51:11 -0500
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040303210655.040b04b0@popd.ix.netcom.com>


Dennis and Jim:

After your two latest posts, I have a much better understanding of what the
disconnect is (thanks).

'Events' (or 'Facts' in FTM) are rarely just one field in particular. For
example, a Birth Event is the combination of at least two database fields:
birthdate and birth location (more sophisticated applications break the
location down even further, providing separate fields for City, State, etc.
which allows for more precise querying). Even though FTM made a valiant
attempt at conforming to these database design standards, I was always a bit
disappointed that their developers could not understand that a 'Fact' (TMG =
'Event') has these different components, and citations and comments might
not apply to the entire thing. For example, just because I get the
information for a person's birth from a gravestone, this does not insinuate
that that self-same gravestone is the citation reference for that person's
birthPLACE (very few stones contain this type of data). Yet, FTM combined
the database fields of birthdate and birth location into one 'Fact' known as
'Birth.' This forces the user to specify *in the footnote* for the benefit
of the reader/researcher *which* element of the Event that a particular
Citation corresponds to.

In FTM, there are four *separate* boxes to enter source-related information
in: Master Source Information, Citation Page, Citation Text, and Footnote.
Regardless of their ultimate purpose in the application (e.g., 'Event'),
these are all database objects known as 'fields' and have their own data
management and display properties. (A simple example would be a Date field.
This field is programmed to assign a set of common Date displays if a user
enters a valid string of alpha-numeric or numeric characters. This 'magic'
conversion is guided by the field's Data Type.)

In database terms, what Jim is describing regarding the FTM footnotes text
entry box is an exact duplication of the Citation Text box, and he cites as
evidence that the user should know this is that it is a part of the
Source-Citation window. Although this is a reasonable *technical*
assumption, it is by no means clear from a task-based approach. All it says
to someone like me is that since the Footnote has the *capability* of
re-displaying Source/Citation information in its text, the developers of FTM
decided to put the Footnote function (re 'field') in this particular Window.
(As evidence of this kind of loose grouping of functions, I point you to any
Microsoft product.) For example, when we enter a person's name in our
database, that person becomes a 'record.' However, when we stipulate
(through our feature functionality) that this person is also the spouse of
someone else, when we bring up that someone's else's record (and
corresponding user interface), we are not saying that the exact fields are
somehow 'redisplayed' in that someone else's form. Rather, a query as been
constructed which extracts the data from the record of the original person
and repopulates that data into the linked fields in the form.

The perspective difference is this: Jim sees the Footnotes text box in FTM
as a redisplay of the Citation information (forcing the user to 'cite' each
and every comment, clarification, remark, etc.) with an 'optional' ability
to add extra text or simply wipe out the Citation text (if there is any).
However, with the box clearly labeled 'Footnote,' the user is given the
impression that this is the spot for...entering footnotes! Thus, the exact
reverse is seen as true: entering footnotes with the *option* of including
*Citation* text. See the important difference here?

FTM indeed has a 'Notes' area which maps to TMG's 'Notes.' However, these
are general notes to the entire record of a *person*, not an event, and they
print out in the body text of the Narrative, not as footnotes. This is an
extremely obnoxious (and wholly arbitrary) feature because - for the sake of
having to consider the output *first*, the user is forced to qualify
different types of database data. (This is what happened to me with FTM.
The only way I could get notes to print as footnotes was to enter Notes data
into the Footnotes box.) In a proper database design, the exact reverse is
true: reports are constructed so as to allow the user to have control over
how the data will be displayed.

Dennis, you pretty much summed up my dilemma in the post below regarding my
'field associated notes' and neither is really workable. I cannot see
creating citations for notes. This would leave me with over 500 frivolous
citations to manage (and I understand that my database is less than
one-tenth the size of some I've seen mentioned on this mailing list!).
Secondly, I can't have a situation where I'm prohibited from creating
footnotes based upon which report I generate. I've never heard of a report
where the author cannot generate footnotes. This is like saying that I
can't generate a title page.

If FTM functions the way Jim says it does (and there seems to be no reason
to dispute his analysis), then that is surely a poor design and has left me
with a massive amount of data re-entry to do. However, before I invest this
work into TMG, I need to know for sure that this text I am about to enter
will meet the following requirements:

1. That I can have it displayed in reports wherever and however I choose
(printing inline, inline parentheses, footnotes, endnotes - particularly the
last two).
2. That the area where this text will be stored conforms to recognized
GEDCOM format standards (unlike FTM) so that an export from TMG to family
and friends who may not use this product is not going to screw up *their*
printouts.
3. That what I create in TMG is not going to cause problems with Web page
creation.

Can TMG meet these criteria?

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Lee Bieber [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:27 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [TMG] FTM Import and Footnotes

On or about 20:36 03/03/04 a carrier pigeon from Gregory Winters delivered:
>footnote is a *separate and distinct* field - it may or may not repeat
>the Source data, Citation data, or Citation text, but regardless, it
>should be allowed to somehow map as a Note attached to its
>corresponding TMG database field (i.e., Name, Birth, Death, etc.). If
>the FTM user did not have

Ah, but here is where TMG differs... Name, Birth, Death, etc. are
NOT FIELDS in TMG, they are individual event types. "Notes" in TMG would
just be another event, separate and unassociated from other events, having
their own sources/citations, etc.

This leaves just two places for your FTM "field associated note"
to be placed. Either the citation detail for the equivalent TMG event, OR
the Memo text (which /is/ a "field") of that same event. Memo text does not,
depending on report options and sentence templates, generate footnotes (if
the sentence template references a [M] variable, the memo field is printed
at that location; if no [M] is in the template, the report options have
choices for printing inline, inline parenthesis, footnotes, endnotes).

I don't know how FTM handles, at the database level, the attachment
of your "note" to a field but in TMG "fields" are not addressable. Event
records are addressable, and an event record incorporates all of: event
type, principal 1, principal 2, date, sort date, place ID (it displays 10
place fields, but it only stores a single pointer/ID to the place table),
memo text. pointer to sentence template.
Citations are separate records (different table) containing a reference to
the source, the detail text, surety, and a pointer to the entire event
record.

TMG (and the late UFT) are "event-based" genealogy programs. I'm
not sure how Legacy stores data, but practically all other programs are
"family-based". In TMG, the "family" is an artifact resulting from an
individual having parent events; family-based programs don't have
individuals without first creating a family record.

--
> ============================================================ <
> | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG <
> | Bestiaria Support Staff <
> ============================================================ <
> Home Page: <http://bieberd.home.netcom.com/>; <



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