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Archiver > VESTAL > 2000-10 > 0971119207


From: Tom Rea <>
Subject: [VESTAL-L] Re: John Vestal, Jr. and Sibby, Macon Co., MO
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:20:07 -0700
References: <002901c03087$b13f2e80$c60f60d8@default>
In-Reply-To: <002901c03087$b13f2e80$c60f60d8@default>


>Dear Tom,
> I also am a Vestal descendent, and just received an email that
>you wrote to Barbara Vestal in Calif. I am descended from James and
>Jemima Vestal. I have some questions concerning your research, and
>don't want you to think I am disputing your conclusion, but they are
>as follows. Maybe you can help me clear some things up, as I have
>had trouble finding James parents and siblings.
>
>I. I also have read where John Vestal, James Vestal and Clariborn
>Wright (the husband of Rebecca Vestal) were delinquent on the 1830
>Wayne Co. Ky. taxes as removed to Missouri.
>This fact leads me to believe that John was the husband of Sibby
>Vestal and I know they were a part of 101 settlers to arrive in
>Randolph Co. just south of Callao Mo. in the spring of 1829. But I
>believe that John never made it to Mo. This is the reason that
>Sibby appears on the 1830 and 1840 Randolph and Chariton Mo. census
>as head of house. But it state that Sibby was between the ages of
>40-50 on the 1830, and 50-60 on the 1840 census. James Vestal on
>the 1830 census was 30-40 and 40-50 in 1840. If Sibby was 50 and
>James was 30 in 1830 could this not make them enough difference in
>age to be mother and son?
>
>2. On page two of your message you mentioned that William S. son
>of James and Jemima was married to Milly Gibson. According to Johns
>Sparks, Williams gg grandson, William was never married to Milly
>Gipson. William was married to Milly Gibson in 1842 and either the
>same or another William Vestal was married to Charlotte Branscomb in
>1844.
>
>I know according to several Newspaper articles that there were 101
>settlers that migrated at the same time to Randolph Co. Mo. from
>Wayne Co. Ky. Some of the names that I am relatively sure that were
>together,and as you state intermarrying were, Vestal, Vickery,
>Wright, Summers,and Green. I strongly believe if there were 101
>seatlers together there had to be some sort of a log kept on this
>migration, whether it be wagon train or by boat. If there was such
>a log that may explain why John Vestal never arrived in Mo. In a
>Will written by James "Sr" Vestal he mentions leaving his son John a
>sum of thirty five shillings. This was in 1793. According to what
>I have found this would make John the son of James "Sr." born about
>1771. Some where I read that John Vestal came to Ky. abt 1800.
>(Just speculation) but if this John could have borrowed the money,
>leaving N.C. in the early to middle 1790's this could have been the
>reason James just left him with the shillings and no property. He
>wasn't there at the time of the will! Also if he moved to Ky about
>the time mentioned and my James (Jemima) Vestal was born abt. 1792
>or 1793 this is subtracting 20 years from the time of his marriage
>to Jemima Wright in 1814 at Wayne Co. Ky. that would put about 20
>years between John and James. My gg grandfather Jacob Vestal was
>the son of James and Jemima Vestal and he was born in 1828, which
>puts about 36 years between Jacob and James but Jacob was the
>seventh child and the oldest being James Emerson who was born in
>1815.
>
>Please let me know what you think, and I will continue to read your
>memo to Barbara.
>
>Thank You for your time
>Kathy Vestal Frazier
><mailto:>

Dear Kathy
Thanks for writing. This Vestal family is sure a riddle and hard to
decipher, but I think we are getting closer to figuring it out. I
may be wrong but this is my thinking so far and why.

The 1830 Wayne Co., Ky Tax Delinquent List-- "James, John, Sr.,
John, Jr. Vestill removed to MO" actually lists JohnVestal, Sr. AND
John Vestal Jr., all men would have to be over 21 years of age to be
on the list in the first place: This would mean all three men would
have to have been born at least before 1809. I believe John Vestal
Sr is the father of James and John Vestal, Jr just from the looks of
it.

Re: Sibby as the mother of James: The 1830 census says 1 female,
presumably Sibby as head of household is 41 to 49 years of age:
therefore born between 1781 and 1791. We know that James was married
1814 to Jemima Wright. Presumably he would have been about 21 years
old, making his birth date 1793 or 1794. Sibby would have to have
had James at 12 years of age to be his mother. According to the
census Sibby's oldest children are born between 1810 and 1820, so she
is rather a contemporary of James, not an elder. I believe she is
the wife of John, Jr. who according to Sibby's listed age must be the
twin of David Vestal born 2 Jan 1788. Sibby would likely be a couple
of years younger than her husband, making her likely birth date about
1790 and her marriage date according to the children's ages as
married between 1810 and 1815, very probably in Wayne Co., KY. John's
twin, David married in 1812 at 24 years of age to Sarah Wade in Wayne
Co., KY, but because he received newly available land for 1812
military service, David and Sarah take their family to Indiana
territory..

We know from the information of Rebecca and Lavina Vestal of Macon
Co., MO that their parents were named "John and Elizabeth". By her
marriage date, 1821 to Claiborn Wright, Rebecca would have to be
about 18 born about 1803 and too old to be John and Sibby's daughter
as John was only 15 in 1803. So I am assuming for now that the John,
Sr. and Elizabeth are the parents of John, the husband of Sibby and
James and Jacob and Rebecca and Lavina, all listed as next door
neighbors in Randolph and Macon Co., MO.

Regarding the age of John, Sr. Since I believe David Vestal, my
ancestor, was a sibling of the Macon Co., MO clan and we have a bible
record of David's Birth date and birth place as 2 Jan 1788 in Surry
Co., NC, I figure the date of David's father like this: If the
Father of David were 25 years old in 1788 , the father would have
been born 1763, if 21 years old, 1767. If David and John, the twins
were the eldest, then the parents married about 1786-1787. If the
father was 21 at marriage or older, then the father was born between
1762-1766. Since David was born in 1788 in Surry Co., then we look
for his parents in the census there in 1790 and 1800. I find in 1790
census Surry co., "Daniel Vestal, James Vestal, and Thomas Vestal.
In 1800 there is Isaac, James, John Nathan, Thomas and Jesse Vestal.
Nathan appears to be the grandson of James and Mary Jay Vestal
through their son, William. All the others except Daniel appear to
be sons of James and Mary. Daniel appears to be the son of David
Vestal and Sarah Chamness. The John Vestal, Surry Co., NC in 1800
(whom I propose to be the John Vestal Sr., of Wayne Co., KY) has:

3 males 0-9 years-- born 1789-1800
2 males 10-15 years --born 1786-1791
1 male 26-44 years--born 1756-1776 (father)
1 female 0-9 years--born 1789-1800
2 females 10-15 years--born 1786-1791
1 female 26-44 years--born 1756-1776 (mother)

If the oldest possible child was born 1786 and the mother were 18 to
20 years old she would be born about 1766 to 1768. If the husband
were typically 2 or 3 years senior the father would be about
1763-1766. The proposed family of John and Elizabeth Vestal is:
John Vestal, Jr. born 2 Jan 1788, David, 2 Jan 1788, Rachel abt.
1790, Jacob abt 1792, James, 1794, William 13 Aug 1795, Rebecca and
Lavina probably not born by 1800 census so two more unknown girls
preceded them?

For some time I have researched for the whereabouts of John Vestal,
b. 1788 the twin of my ancestor, David. Indiana descendants had said
he married Elizabeth Wade, the sister of David's wife, Sarah and that
he had lived in Indiana. None of that panned out. There were Johns
in Indiana but they are accounted for. Elizabeth Wade the sister of
Sarah Wade married John Brinson and this is documented. Since David
Vestal and Sarah Wade appear by several circumstances to be related
to the Macon county clan, I am convinced the John Vestal of that
Macon co., group is his twin brother and as I said previously, I
think Sibby is probably the daughter of Robert A. Gipson, wife Gracie
Smith of Randolph and Macon Co., MO.

Please include me in anything you come up with. We need to figure
out the children of John and Sibby Vestal and the children of Jacob
and Shelah Summers Vestal. One way to do this is my a thorough study
of the 1830, 1840, and 1850 census to look for clues, especially in
naming patterns or any surviving vital records or cemetery clues.
According to a posting by Nancy Vestal Maxwell possible children of
Sibby are Isaac Vestal b. 1820, d 29 Jun 1896, Jesse Vestal, b.
1810-1820 KY; William Vestal born 1826 KY, Polly Vestal, b. 1820 KY,
and Sarah Vesta. b. 1810-1820 KY. All or any of whom, according to
Nancy could also be the children of Jacob and Shelah Vestal.

Nancy Maxwell wrote on Genform 1 March 1999: "1850 No Sibby in
Randolph or Macon Counties. I am unable to locate a obit or cemetery
record.
If Silby is Sibby and was John Vestal's wife she would be a second
wife as she is too young to be the mother of David, James, or Jacob.
There is a 10 year age differences between James and Rebecca & I have
a source that states the mother of Rebecca and Lavina was named
Elizabeth, Sibby could be a nickname. Also there were more children
if Sibby is Silby. Possible other children are Isaac Vestal b1820 d
6/29/1896, Jesse Vestal b 1810-1820 KY, William Vestal b 1826 KY,
Polly Vestal b 1820 KY, Sarah Vestal b 1810-1820 KY. They also could
be children of Jacob Vestal and Selah Summers. All of James's
children are well documented.
Polly lived with William and his family in 1850 & were probably
siblings. Jesse and Sarah married in 1835 so they couldn't be
siblings. Isaac was buried in a family cemetery and the only other
Vestals that I know of being buried there are des of Jesse and Sarah.
I believe he probably is a sibling to one of them. Sarah remarried in
1848 so I presume Jesse died before 1848, when and where I don't
know. In Randolph Co, another Sarah Vestal mar 7/24/1834 a R John
Cullum, a Rebecca Vestal mar 3/12/1836 a Robert Green, another (maybe
the same) Rebecca mar 7/25/1836 a Walker West (one is probably a dau
of Jacob). There are no Vestal in Randolph Co Mo Census 1840-1880. In
Macon Co a Nancy Vestal parents unknown to me mar 2/21/1845 a John
White. Allen Vestal b 6/22/1829 Randolph Co s/o James Vestal and Lucy
C Wright, who are they and where did they go?
Also in the 1850 Macon Co Census in a Nancy Vestal b 1790 VA with
James Vestal b1827 TN and Franklin Vestal b 1831 IL haven't a thought
how they fit."

I am cc'ing this note to Nancy in the hopes that she knows more and
also knows more interested descendants.

Re: William Vestal marries Millie Jane Gipson, 9 Dec 1842, Macon
Co., MO the daughter of Robert A. and Gracie Smith Gibson and William
S. Vestal marries Charlotte Branscomb, 9 Nov 1844, Macon Co., MO : I
find both Williams in 1850 census with their wives so that are not
one and the same William Vestal. Presently I have them incorrectly
in my database as one and the same. Please help me figure that out.

Tom Rea


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